June 9th, 2010
“The most important thing for a young man is to establish credit- a reputation and character.”
– John D. Rockefeller
Mal is a good dog. Really, he is. He hasn’t bribed me with cuddles…wooed me with his eyes…paid me to tell you so, he’s a good little guy. He’s just excitable, and it means that when we go on walks we’re not strolling, we’re working.
It’s a bit of a perfect storm- he’s easily excited and a little unsure of the world at first blush, so if someone comes down the street when we’re walking, he’s instantly aware. If we met you on the street and I let him do what he wanted, he would run up to you (barking a YOU ARE NEW, I DON’T KNOW YOU bark) wiggle around you (barking an I AM GETTING TO KNOW YOU, YOU SEEM ALRIGHT bark) and then after he’d smelled you (barking a WE ARE BEST FRIENDS NOW!!!! IT IS DESTINY!!! bark) he would calm down, let you pat his belly, and be quiet. Like a normal dog.
But if left to his own devices those first 30 seconds of meeting Mal would leave an impression, so we’ve been working hard to make sure he doesn’t get a reputation. Because the last thing any young man needs to do these days is ruin his reputation. How will he ever marry if people think he’s anti-social?
(As a character from a Jane Austin novel, I think it’s important for him to think of these things)
We’re working with him on our walks every day- we bring treats so we’re more interesting than the new people and dogs, we stop and ask him to calm down any time he gets excited and wants to meet someone new, and if he starts to bark we pull off the sidewalk and keep him quiet while the new friends walk past us. And he’s never allowed to meet someone unless he’s quiet and calm.
He’s been making great progress, for instance his barking has been downgraded to excited panting (and thinking about barking) when he meets someone new now, but I’ve still been considering taking him to classes… the only thing is I’m not sure where we fit.
Mal doesn’t really need an obedience class for the obedience – he loves learning new tricks and is extremely focused. He learns quickly and will sit and stay and dance and roll over until the cows come home if you ask him to. But he’s not a puppy, so all the socialization classes I can find are out (and we already did one!). I would just head to the dog park to have him slowly meet other dogs who would model calm behaviour for him…. but inexplicably, none of the dog parks in my city are fenced in! Unless I tied an anchor to him, I wouldn’t feel comfortable starting our real off leash work in a high stakes environment like that. And I think anchors are out this year.
I just need a “How To Meet Dogs and People While Keeping Your Cool” seminar for him- and finding the right fit is looking like a project rather than a phone call. I’m hoping that soon we find the right place and person to work with us- and at least for the mean time we’re stocked up on treats and I’m working on sounding stern when I say “quiet”.
Have you had any experience with excitable dogs or obedience classes?
Do you think a class is the best next step?
ps – Before you ask we walk the dogs for a minimum of 45 minutes a day, have done puppy socialization with them and are experienced with handling dogs. He’s just rambunctious! :)
I would give Charleswood Dog Park a try. My Mom brings her silly little puppy there all the time and he is very badly behaved but is getting better. Most of it is fenced in except one part of it. My favorite is Maple Grove because its a lot more calm I find and has nice trails and big open fields. You just need to be careful if Mal is a swimmer!
As for the obedience classes, Stu went before for Vegas and found that they were more for the pet owner, so you learn, for the dogs it was more of a socializing experience.
Hope that helps, but from what I read it sounds like what you are doing is the right thing. We are working on that with Tilt, not rewarding behavior when she is not calm (yaaaay Dog Whisperer). We even have her sitting before eating her food and she wouldn’t dare try and have a nibble before we say take it. :) Good luck!
Thanks so much for your thoughts, Lilian! I’ve heard that Charleswood Dog Park is the place to be, and I think we have to give it a try :)
i adore your pups. in fact, when i first visited your blog, Mal was playing in the snow, in a post on the front page and it was love at first sight!
have you heard of The Dog Whisperer? the show is hosted by Caesar Millan (aka The Dog Whisperer) and watching his shows have helped us a lot with all our dogs. well, that’s an understatement. this is more like it: he has helped change our lives. i highly recommend the show to mend any issues (big or small) with our canine family members!
Why must your dog be so beautiful? GAH! Makes me wish I had a dog so badly.
ugh…it just looks so long to read lmao. sorry!!
Hey Kyla – it’s so awesome to see you taking the steps and responsibility in socializing Mal. I love seeing responsible dog owners :)
I will add this to what has already been said…
I did puppy obedience with Howard and to be honest. I have mixed feelings about it. I feel it was really great for the socialization aspect of it…to have him around other dogs small and large. It was also good for ME to be around other dogs. As someone who was (and still is) afraid of dogs and never had pets growing up, it was good for me to be around other dogs and get used to meeting them too. However, the obedience aspect of it….to be honest – it’s nothing i couldn’t have taught Howard myself at home. The key with obedience training, I learned, is patience and consistency. Everyone who is responsible for the dog needs to be on the same page, do the same things, and enforce the same rules. No mixed signals.
Another thing – while I do see the pros of rewards and treats – you might want to consider not using treats in training Mal. Do you watch ‘off the leash’ with brad? It comes on Slice :) He’s a dog trainer and while some have mixed feelings on his approach (he’s pretty stern with the owners…he always takes treats away) the results he gets are amazing. What I’ve learned is that in using treats you are rewarding them for doing something by giving them a treat. But what if one day you forget the treat? Or what if, like my dog, they have finicky tastes and grow tired of the treat? You’ll forever be looking for the next treat to make him respond how you want…he should respond to your command even if you don’t have a treat. So I would suggest working on a command followed by an action that you want him to do…IMMEDIATELY followed by the command. (email me and i can expand – i taught howard how to stop so he can walk off-leash beside me and doesn’t run away or cross the road until he gets my word…at least 95% of the time…no one/ no dogs perfect, I say ;)
I was going to suggest a dog park but see that you said they aren’t fenced in your area. How about taking him for walks in neighborhoods that have other dogs? You can usually find other pet owners walking their dogs early in the morning or late in the early evening. Always ask if it’s okay for your dog to say hello, keep him on his leash, then slowly approach the other dog with a firm hold on Mal. And have other dogs say ‘hi’ to him so he gets used to it. Introduce him to other dogs slowly and safely and I think you’ll be fine. And after he has said a nice ‘hello’ to the other dog or done something else you would normally reward with a treat – reward with praise instead. Replace treats with praise. Howard LOVES when I gush over him….
The key is patience and consistency.
Sorry for writing a novel. You know how I feel about dog owners and their dogs :) Feel free to email me if I can give any more tips!
G’luck! Mal’s a lucky dog :)
Thanks so much for all in great advice, miss! I really enjoy “Off the leash” and Cesar too, and I’ve heard mixed things about not using treats- Cesar’s stance is that if you ever take food completely out of the equation you’re going to fail, but that being said I did some psychology in school so I’m a big fan of rewarding him every few times he does something good, not every time. He’s totally a schemer, I could see him coming up with little scams- I’ve heard of dogs who get treats for going to the bathroom quickly learn to go outside and mime going to the bathroom to get more treats! lol
We’re working on meeting other dogs on our walks, I guess the main problem (or reality) is that everyone is at a different level of training, respect, and obedience with their own dogs. There are a lot of very poorly controlled dogs around, and those are the ones that make Mal go off the richter scale while the calm guys are ones that he does way better around. We have favourites, whose owners know what we’re trying to achieve with him and who will wave at us as we’re coming down the street and let us approach only when he’s calm.
Those people are worth their weight in gold! :) And so are you for your advice, thanks so much!
I would love to know what kind of answers you get to this, and if you let me know what you try and what works! Our dog Sadie is the same way! She is SUPER smart but way too excitable. She is calm when she is around us (only gets all crazy when we get home), but whenever someone comes over she goes bonkers! What really bugs me is that she licks and licks and licks and won’t stop, and she jumps up on people, it’s soooo embarassing! Blah!
Oh My he is so cute it hurts!
My coworker has similar issues with her dog. She goes to obedience classes even though her dog knows all the tricks and everything. She says it helps being around other dogs and people and the trainer helps them with their specific issues. Apparently Tucker (the dog) has excelled big time!
Good Luck!
He’s such a cutie. How lovely :)
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Kisses…
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Hahaha, Quinn does the excited barking/meet-greet-LOVE dance too. Less so with other dogs, more so with people. He ONLY does it at home, though, so generally we hold him back and ask the person if they are okay to meet him. He’s little, and wriggly so generally they die of cuteness and agree. I’ve only had one person not want to meet him, and that was fine. I’m totally in awe of your training with Mal, though! That’s really brilliant :)
It’s so good to hear that you and Quinn have worked through similar things! I think at the end of the day, Mal’s just a bit over cautious- I think we’re going to pick a few street festivals this summer and help him to learn that what’s important around people is to watch us, and to let us figure out who we should be wary of.
I wish I had some brilliant advice here, but dachshunds are notoriously poor at being trained. Some people do well with theirs, but we’re still working on getting them to stop barking even in the house. Adley is making progress, but poor Radish, I think she’ll be the unmarryable one!
Oh he just misses me!! ;)
I wonder if it’s a schipp thing. We have NEVER had an issue with Bravo trying to bite anyone but because his way of talking is to growl people are very nervous around him. No matter how many times we try to explain it’s just his way people still back away or think he’s being mean.
For his HEY YOU GUYS LOOK THERE’S SOMEONE IN MY LINE OF SIGHT barking we settled on an ultrasonic bark collar and it worked really well. We coupled the noise with a “No Bark” command and within 6 weeks he didn’t need the collar. It is still an every day struggle to keep him from losing it and just barking non stop, but it is better than it was.
My recommendation is just to keep trying. Eventually you’ll find something that works and don’t give up when you do.
Thank you so much for the coller suggestion- of course since I posted this, the whole things has flipped around and now Ash has lost his puppy mind. We’ve had a weekend of him pitching little barking fits that we’ve had to kennel him over, which solves the problem…. after an hour of more of even crazier barking…. /sigh
Now that you mention it, I think the breed information said “suspicious of strangers” and “bark must be kept under control”… in hindsight that sounds like code for “shouts a lot, has a “bit” of an attitude about how things should be done at all times”, doesn’t it? lol
Kyla- have you tried the Charleswood Dog Park @ Grant and Moray? It confuses me to no end why they didn’t fence it all the way around- BUT 99% of dogs completely ignore the fact that the one side is not fenced. A lot of people just choose to stay on the side away from the open end.
I’ve been going almost every day for 2 years and my dog, who is NOT leash trained in the least, has only left the dog park once- but that was because an enormous Great Dane was really, REALLY interested in her (and she’s a scaredy cat). FYI- she ran into the football field next door…then looped right back around to me :)
If you’ve never been, I’d suggest a sunny Sat/Sun afternoon. There’s always a variety of dogs there and lots of nice owners who may even have a solution for you! Most first timers just leave the leash on their kids until they’re comfortable.
A friend of mine started bringing her one year old dogs- who barked incessently at other dogs (the OMG someone new! bark). They’ve since calmed right down and are now lovely members of the ‘regulars’ at the park. One of them even takes it upon himself to gaurd my dog when needs be.
Paige, thank you so much for the advice! We’ll definitely check that one out- hopefully I’ll bump into you too! :)
AWW! I can’t wait the day when I have a place that could house a dog. My poor cat would hate me though.
I wish I had more advice to share other than to say – I understand completely!! Our yellow lab has been through obedience classes, socialization classes, us training him constantly with walking, you name it. And we figure “oh once he grows up he’ll calm down with walking” Well he’s 5 now and walking is still not his strong suit :) He’s just too excited to meet and greet everyone and if he sees a dog, forget it…he just wants to play more than anything. I do have to say that having a gentle leader has really helped because he’s so strong!!
Clearly the solution is to move to Vancouver where we have an abundance of fenced-in dog parks :)
We have the same problem with Wolfgang – he’s a good little guy but he’s quite the barker on our walks. Is Mal territorial or protective of you? With Wolfgang, we think his problem is that he feels that he needs to defend me from the big bad world. I’m working on being more assertive on our walks (I tend to get very apologetic and flustered when he gets shouty out in public) so that he knows I’m the boss (ha!)
Perfect!! I should have known you would have a solution, I’ll see you in a few days ;)
We’ve never taken our dog to doggy school. It took him a while, but now he knows his commands. The only thing is he’s not dog social, but the dog park is a great place for that… he loves now meeting new dogs. The one thing we are trying to work on, is his barking. Bark, bark, bark.
He knows to bark to alert us if someone is coming in the yard. He doesn’t quite get that, beyond the yard, anyone is free to walk.
We don’t have a dog so I have no idea but man is he adorable!
My pup Molly is just as rambunctious as Mal (and probably a little worse). I’m so glad you posted this, because at least I know I’m not the only one dealing with something like this! Molly listens so well at home when it’s just me and her for the day. She’s a very smart dog and knows a lot of commands and tricks. But the moment we go for a walk, get her out in public around new people or dogs, or have people come over to our house, she lets the excitement take over and chooses not to listen to us. She gets herself SO excited that she’s almost impossible to manage. She whines, barks, shakes (with nerves and because she’s wagging her tail so vigorously), and even pees herself if someone talks to her in a high-pitched, cutesy voice or shows her attention. We’ve been trying to work with her at sitting still until she calms down, and we bought an anti-pull halter for walks. I’m going to have to try taking treats with me on walks, as you do, because maybe that will help her pay attention to me a little better!
Truman is obviously no model citizen, in fact, he acts quite a bit like Mal does. I have a hard time admonishing him because I so love his pure unadulterated joy at everything and everyone. But, I’m with you, it only takes a minute to ruin a good reputation :-) That being said, Truman has been to obedience school, and he knows all the rules, usually decides to follow them, and the best thing aside from all that has been TIME. He’s almost two now and I’ve noticed a big difference in his maturity level. It sounds like you guys have laid the foundation for a well-behaved dog, so I think once his maturity catches up, you’ll notice a big difference!
My mom’s golden lab Murphy is JUST like that! He is 100 pounds of rambunctious dog! But he wouldn’t hurt a fly, he just loves to meet new people, and, you know, jump up on their chests and lick their faces. No big deal right? ;)
Anyways, when I am back home and take him for runs with me what I try to do is make him SIT when we are passing people and make him STAY as the people pass us. He is very well-trained so even though he kind of whimpers and looks at me like I’m cruel, he is pretty good at it. When we see other dogs though, that’s a whole ‘nother story. He will go crazy! I think it’s because he’s an ‘only dog’ so he doesn’t see other dogs often and I *hope* he grows out of it but who knows.
Usually towards the ends of our runs he’s too tired to give a second look to anyone or anything that we pass so I think it’s also the initial excitement of being out on the walk!
It does sound like you guys have it under control, and props for being cool dog owners who “Get it.” When we adopted our first dog from a shelter, she was about a year old, and we enrolled in a basic obedience class. I think it helped her develop her social skills, because even though it was just an obedience class, it’s in a group setting with several other dogs in our immediate class (and tons of other dogs at the facility because there are multiple classes going on at once). So it offers repeated experiences with strange dogs and people in a controlled setting.
You could also work on him off-leash in a calmer, controlled setting if you can find one (like a friend’s back yard). Work on “Come,” etc. Then maybe you can take him to the dog park during non-peak hours…keep him on the leash for a while so he gets familiar, let him explore….and if you feel comfortable you can let him off for just a bit and see how it goes. Just take baby steps, and remember to be a “Calm and assertive” pack leader a la Cesar Millan!
Thank you for the fantastic advice- calm and assertive is definitely the idea we’re going for :)
At first I thought Mal was an homage to Firefly, but Jane Austen is even better. :)
We had a similar puppy problem a few years ago when I still lived at home, with my brother’s dog, Shelby. She would get so darn excited over other dogs/new people she’d go spastic and pee a little (a lot) and sometimes in inconvenient places, like on my bed when I got home late. Since she wasn’t altogether naughty, and she was VERY smart, we ended up just crating her for 10-15 minutes when she modeled the behavior we didn’t like, or if we were somewhere without her crate, put her in the car. Sort of like a time-out. It seems to have worked, because she’s much calmer now and almost never spazzes out. I think it’s partially because she’s 5 now, and partially because she knew when she was crated during the day that we weren’t pleased. She still voluntarily goes in her crate at night and when she’s sleepy, so we managed to give her time outs without making her afraid of the crate, either. Bonus! :)
In other news, I just asked my landlord to consider allowing us to get a puppy. I await her response with bated breath! Perhaps this summer will bring our bungalow some puppy love…!
Oh! I was meaning that I must be a character out of a Jane Austin novel if I’m so concerned with his reputation- Mal’s name is definitely borrowed from Firefly… though, come to think of it, his attitude kinda makes sense then…. ;)
It’s hard to tame those wild spirits inside dogs. I personally like when the dog get’s so excited to see me and runs around…But I can see why it can cause a fuss. Treats are a great bribe.
I have no idea. Little Lola is quite excitable when she meets new people, but she doesn’t bark at them so that’s nice. She does wiggle excitedly around them & maybe jump up on them a little…everyone is her friend! Sounds like if you just keep working on it the way you are it should help…keep us updated too, because I may need some tips later on, clearly.
:)
oh puppies.
My Chloe is the same way when she meets new people, except she substitutes peeing on them for barking at them. She’s so excited and wiggly, she just can’t seem to help herself! We’re planning on doing an obedience class with her this summer!
Oh wow, Holly- that must be hard to manage! It sounds like an obedience class is the perfect idea, let me know how it goes! :)
He’s so adorable. Nate and I are thinking of getting a pup and I know we’ll be in for similar misadventures. :)
I think my favorite part of this is the different kinds of barks Mal has! I can’t wait to meet him someday =)
It sounds to me like you guys are doing the right thing with training and making sure he shows the correct behavior before you proceed. Maybe a few play dates with dogs in your backyard to start? If that doesn’t go well, perhaps consult your vet and see if they have any recommendations?
The Dog Whisperer?
We’re devotees! Maybe just continuing to work with him ourselves is a good option too- I just want to make sure we’re doing all we can :)
Mr. Mal is certainly a handsome young fellow! I am fairly certain that if he ran over, barked and rolled over for me I would oblige him with a belly rub. Sandy came trained and is really good around new people. She basically sits, waits for them to pet her head, then melts into a pile of golden fur at their feet thumping her tail against the ground.
That would be so wonderful- I think that maybe part of the solution is just to keep him super active so when we do meet people and puppies, he’s sleepy from all his activity and is more civil lol
I am of no help when it comes to anything pet related since I haven’t had a dog since I was a very little girl. I am actually quite afraid of dogs, which I know is completely irrational. I get super intimidated when they jump on me or bark, even though I know that is just their way of showing their excitement. I am working on this, though!
I do think Mal is adorable, though!
Oh no! Well when we meet up this summer we won’t bring Mal. The good thing about our guys is that they’re the size of chickens, so even if they start yipping a little they’re not at all intimidating :)
There’s this whole thing about knowing what he considers a reward, and waiting for him to show the desired behaviour before you proceed while you’re walking. I’m talking pretty much out of my ass because my dogs still charge the door shrieking whenever someone comes to the door, so I’m in no position to offer training insight.
So….uh. I’m done.
As long as I’m not the only one!! lol :)
Oh my gosh, he is SUCH a cutie!! My sister raised a black lab for the NEEDS program (she raised him so that he could help out someone with special needs), and I know that he was a bundle of crazy energy at first. After obedience classes, he was still his fun-loving self, but he would do absolutely anything on command. Obedience classes really do seem to work wonders. But it sounds like you’re already on the right track. Good luck and have FUN!
Thanks for giving me a peek into your experience Nicole- I was wondering if it would help him in general, or if it would be more of a “now he can sit and stay… good luck with the rest” situation.
Although, I guess even if that was the case, anything that helps him listen to us more actively is a good thing! :)